'The term vegan was coined by Donald Watson in 1944 and was defined as follows:
"Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities derived wholly or in part from animals."'
It would be up to the individual to draw lines about oil, chalk etc. - clearly 'derived from animals' but not involving any 'exploitation of, and cruelty to, the animal kingdom'.
In case you're wondering, I have been known myself to argue that vegans should consider their car fuel...
Well, it seems to me that vegans "can" eat raw beef for that matter; the material question is whether in interferes with their ideological purity (or, in some cases, their digestion). If the idea is to avoid exploiting animals, then presumably ones that died of old age or at least non-human agency are fair game, and thus, chalk be fine. Though once you make that decision, then I suppose there's no reason why vegans couldn't eat roadkill and anything else that's expired of natural causes, but I reckon you'd want the cause of death well documented, to say the very least.
There's a chalk and cheese joke in all this somewhere, but clearly, as someone who is callously willing to drink juices colored with cochineal, I'm unqualified to make it.
And some vegans won't eat certain vegetables because of the insect life they harbour - onions in particular - and some won't eat plants that propagate by shoots (root veg, potato) as they each contain the possibility of many souls.
(Jainism)
If I were going to restrict my diet for ethical reasons, veganism is the best way to go. Vegetarians, who eat milk and cheese, worry me - what do they think happens to the baby animal that milk was destined for? VEAL, that's what happens.
If one is going to worry about the collateral death or suffering of animals one isn't eating or wearing, then vegans would pretty much have to give up on anything grown by mechanized farming as well: apparently the death toll by combine harvester can be fairly horrific. (Though even an animal-drawn plow is likely to reap a bloody harvest in field mice, earthworms, moles, shrews, and assorted insects, *and* it exploits the horses/oxen.) And farming that employs pesticides is presumably right out. But even organic farming has its potential moral failings -- blood-, bone-, and fish-meal fertilizers depend on the deaths of animals, obviously. And manure as fertilizer will presumably be coming from exploited animals. And so on and so forth.
And none of it, presuming one can find any morally correct food, may be eaten off of bone china without treyfing the whole deal after all.
Quite. I will happily support vegetarians and vegans who have made that choice on health grounds, but the ethical argument has always seemed rather unconvincing and inconsistent for the reasons you give.
As an aside, I really don't understand near-carnivores (and I've known a couple) who refuse to eat anything *but* meat because they don't like vegetables. That's just barmy!
My friend marsgov has told me that it's often easier to keep kosher than it is to be vegetarian. I think we were more likely discussing gelatin than chalk, however, as a case in point.
The guidelines for kosher, of course, come in handy guidebooks; rules vary by tradition, but it's all laid out for you. Vegetarians . . not so much.
(Mike, is *this* what started the conversation over at Making Light, or was something else the mutual inspiration?)
No, because people who eat meat secretly know that those of us who don't have much nicer meals and are far healthier. Plus they feel guilt-tripped because they're certain we're building up massive karma with every animal we don't eat. So naturally, they have to pick at us with stupid questions like these... :-)
So what foods contain chalk anyway? And would vegan school teachers have to wear face masks to be sure of not inhaling it by accident? Assuming they still use chalk these days......
does this mean they can't use things made out of plastic? or drive around using petrol? time to go bother my nearest vegan...
If they're that bothered about the Natural World perhaps they shouldn't be driving at all. But (Ewan McColl) the folks of today they would much sooner pay for a thing that's been made out of plastic...
The chalk organisms were mostly photosynthetic heterokont or haptophyte protists related to living coccolithophores. If forced to call them between animal, vegetable, or mineral, I'd have to go for vegetable.
Yes, there will be some tiny animals in the chalk as well. But then there are tiny animals on the roots of the vegetables we eat.
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"Veganism is a way of living which excludes all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, the animal kingdom, and includes a reverence for life. It applies to the practice of living on the products of the plant kingdom to the exclusion of flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, honey, animal milk and its derivatives, and encourages the use of alternatives for all commodities derived wholly or in part from animals."'
It would be up to the individual to draw lines about oil, chalk etc. - clearly 'derived from animals' but not involving any 'exploitation of, and cruelty to, the animal kingdom'.
In case you're wondering, I have been known myself to argue that vegans should consider their car fuel...
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There's a chalk and cheese joke in all this somewhere, but clearly, as someone who is callously willing to drink juices colored with cochineal, I'm unqualified to make it.
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*snork*
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That rather depends on whether you consider an animal being run over to be a death of natural causes...
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(Jainism)
If I were going to restrict my diet for ethical reasons, veganism is the best way to go. Vegetarians, who eat milk and cheese, worry me - what do they think happens to the baby animal that milk was destined for? VEAL, that's what happens.
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And none of it, presuming one can find any morally correct food, may be eaten off of bone china without treyfing the whole deal after all.
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As an aside, I really don't understand near-carnivores (and I've known a couple) who refuse to eat anything *but* meat because they don't like vegetables. That's just barmy!
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The guidelines for kosher, of course, come in handy guidebooks; rules vary by tradition, but it's all laid out for you. Vegetarians . . not so much.
(Mike, is *this* what started the conversation over at Making Light, or was something else the mutual inspiration?)
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(that is how it works, isn't it?)
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And Vitamin D.
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(oooh, look, I used emoticons. That means no one can hold me accountable for what I say.)
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How does asking questions interfere with vegans' abilities to eat what they want? Are question marks made of prions or something?
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And would vegan school teachers have to wear face masks to be sure of not inhaling it by accident? Assuming they still use chalk these days......
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If they're that bothered about the Natural World perhaps they shouldn't be driving at all. But (Ewan McColl) the folks of today they would much sooner pay for a thing that's been made out of plastic...
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Ahem.
Yes, well.
Ken Brown gives a clinching answer on CIX:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterokont
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haptophyte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccolithophore
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